Aren't they the 10 Commandments? not suggestions?
RELIGIOUS INTERRUPTUS ;
I had a conversation with a business acquaintance yesterday that left me feeling very disturbed.
This friend was telling me that he is in a new relationship. ( he's jewish, but that's an accident by birth, he tells me - he just happens to work here in Boro Park)
"Oh, great" I said to him, I'm so happy for you. Who is she?"
He replied, "She's a married woman, lives here in Boro Park, has 4 children, wears a sheitel, and she's good in bed." (am I allowed to say that on a blog site?) He then proceeded to tell me, that the last 4 or 5 "relationships" that he had prior to this one, were also with married women in Boro Park. I know he's telling the truth, because I know one of the women, and she did have a fling with him.
This conversation flabbergasted me!
Of course, I'm not living on a different planet, and I know that sometimes these things happen, one falls in love, some leave the life, and remarry outside of the boundaries that we have --- but to hear that it's common -- to hear that it's being done all over, is mind boggling. He tells me he can get most any married woman here for a sexual encounter, because they are, for the most part, frustrated in their intimate life, their husbands are not good bed partners, selfish with little regard to the wife's pleasure.
Answer me - what do you think of this?
I simply can't get it out of my mind.
I mean - I know that "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" - but I was not married when I rebelled . What's going on in this "so called" frum/chasidish/litvich/yeshivish community???
AND THEY WERE HYSTERICAL OVER THE SHEITEL ISSUE A WHILE BACK?? IS THIS WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO THEM - NOT ADULTERY?
What happened to the Ten Commandments? Is there a "heter" that I don't know about?
posted by Margaritagirrl @ 7:07 PM
68 comments
68 Comments:
MG,
It's easy to be shocked but be careful to judge quickly . The sexual impulse can be incredibly strong across the board, even (especially) in repressed married women in BP whose husbands wouldn't know a female orgasm if it slapped them in the face and bit them on the nose.
We all have our tayvos.
TRK
You know what the problem is, MGirl?
Ignorence.
To some chasidishe woman, being an iashis ish and sleeping around, and going to the movies is the same sin.
If they do one, why cant they do the other?
to Ying. and TRK - I don't shock so easily and I certaily have done my share of giving in to my "tayvos" ( I could write a book about my adventures) and I don't want to judge, because I know that the best person in the world can be led down the garden path - by physical desires, monetary gains, whatever.
But - I guess it's true, hoezentragerin, that these people think "Oh my G-D, she goes to the movies" - or "Chalevakem - I would never eat anything but Cholov Yisroel!" or "Did you notice, she has a slit in her skirt, AND she wears nail polish" --- Then.....they turn around, and meet the boyfriend, cheat the government, bad mouth people, and much more.
It's a little depressing. I'm no angel, but I DO try to improve every day.
what's the deal with Penn St.
I thought all the action was on Keap st....
to funandfrum - all of you out there!
You lived on Penn Street? the corner of........was it Marcy Avenue?
When I was running around and having my fun, sometimes I'd be sitting in a comedy club, or nightclub, with a Gin & Tonic (used to be my favorite) and all of a sudden my heart would plummet downward, and I'd think "What the hell am I doing here?" But when I was home, I wanted to party, yet when I partied, I wanted to be home. On a subconscious level, I think I KNEW that the outside life was just fun for the moment, and I think there is more to life. A person who has a spiritual life and has emunah, is a happier person. On Purim, for instance, a cousin of mine, who has plenty of family and financial problems, just puts them away on the shelf, because, as he said to me..."Today is Purim, a time to be happy, joyous, drink until you can't tell the difference between Haman and Mordechai," and he was able to do that, with tremendous faith in Hashem. This is difficult for me. Although I believe - sometimes I scoff at those who tell the Yiddishe stories about people who have gone over to the other side (death) and they "come back" to somebody in a dream, to warn them of an upcoming calamity, which can be avoided if the dreamer does this or that. And in the merit of the forefathers, and the yichus of the person, he wakes up and realizes what he has to do. I always ask , "Yeah, so who has come back from the other world and told us what goes on in heaven, who will be judged for what, yadda, yadda. etc.
Thanks for the kudus.........I have lots more to tell you, and more of my poetry will be coming up......so - stay tuned!
to Hoizent. - I thought the action was on Kent Avenue!!
to lost spirit....
I just logged onto your blog and printed out your first two postings.
Very interesting.....I'll read it later when I have more time, but in the meantime, just wanted to tell you that. You know, there must be many, many more people who think like us, have their little doubts, confusions, guilt and fear, as you put it (which is SO true) it's the fear of the afterlife and the judgement that will be handed down to us - that keeps us in our place. It should really be love and belief, in the existence of our Father - Hashem - we should believe that He looks down to us, as a father to his children, and forgives us when He knows that we are good and kind inside, but sometimes botch it up......
REMEMBER THIS - we are tough, and we will last!
Tough times never last, tough people do.
- Robert Schuller
"You lived on Penn Street? the corner of........was it Marcy Avenue?"
Eeeeeeeesh,
I have a family member that lives right there.
to Hoisen.........
I didn't say I LIVED there, but I know that building. There weren't that many apartment houses in that area....
ps. who's the family member? As if you'd tell.........that's ok. I respect your anonymity.
MG,
Without saying which corner of Ross I grew up in, and where I live now, I do very much enjoy your view and ideas on this very subject.
The main problem (or good news, depends on your point of view) we have of course is the fact that Orthodoxy grew to ten times its size of only a few years back. As such, there are ten times the amount of troublemakers and ‘fried’ out kids. However, lately the numbers are much bigger then it used to be.
Unlike you, it does give me immense satisfaction seeing how the wall that we are entrenched behind is crumbling by our own. There will one day be a kosher or ‘kosher style’ eatery open on Shabbos right on the outskirts of Boro Park.
See, I’ve warned you all…
ST,
guess what there is already open eatery outside BP which are open shabbes, why do you think it has to be kosher. You remind me of the chasidisher guy who went into McDonald’s to get a cheese burger and asked it to be a mezones roll.
I hope we the chasidim will become more of a progressive type open minded, yet have the chasidsher touch, staying frum. Since I started my blog and got some feedback on the comment section I thin we still have hope. You are right that in away if we wont become more of an open minded people., then we will have to deal with out an out right shkutzim.
AAChussid
to Chayele
I know...I know...there is nothing to be done.....It's just that, here I am, flogging myself daily for being so bad, bad, bad.....and since I look a little too cool for the folks in this neighborhood, there are people who love to dis me - and here I see that people are doing G-D knows what. You know what? I'm still confused about where I AM GOING in this world! I try so damn hard, and I don't even know for what, sometimes.
to Shtriemel
Why? Why would it make you happy to see it all crumble?
I mean - I can see that it might happen, but I wouldn't be glad about it.....I'm trying to think why it would please you....so you can say, to your parents, maybe - SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!! Because it's true that our parents were overly strict with us, and that may have contributed to all the rebellion that I see around me, and on the blogs that I read.
I don't know how old you are, shtriemel, and how your parents (cause it has to be from the parents) screwed up - cause each generation is guilty of incorrect child rearing in a different way.
The old joke ... Moses comes down from the mountain and says, "I have good news and bad news. The good news ... I got Him down to 10, the bad news ... adultery is still in there."
I am divorced and in Boston. It blows my mind how many married women come on to me, both frum and not. I have lots of thoughts about it, even an understanding of it, but it is very prevalent.
to anon...
LOVE the 10 commandments joke. I heard it a long time ago, but I laughed out loud, reading your comment........the bad news, adultery is still in there... love it, love it.
How true. At least you are single, being divorced and according to the "wonderful" jewish laws, it's not YOUR sin! It's ALL on the woman... we pay the price.
What are your thoughts about this? Anything that will lift my mood about this.......it makes me feel sad that so many frum (ahem) people are in exramarital relationships.
I think people need to get out of the Frum = Religious ideology. I realised it a long time back (may post on it in future). Just because they look the part, doesn't mean they act it or feel it. Also, being taught that ALL is bad - people think that they are all equal.
Although it is not my sin, as you correctly point out, I am part of the action. It is not black and white as I have learned. And don't think it is only frum women! Newsweek and CNN both have recently done stories about this and how it is more prevalent than ever.
The frum women I know have some different issues though. Having always been 'good' girls (i.e.: minimal if any premarital anything, no drugs, etc.) adds to the allure of something 'wrong.' This in addition to what is missing at home, makes flirting, and it's outgrowth, that much more alluring.
To have never really kissed anyone but your husband, to realize that there was never any (other) passion, then to have the opportunity to see what it is like ...
Sometimes, when one gets outside a marriage, the one thing that is missing inside the marriage, the marriage gets better. Not always, but for some women (I can only talk in that direction) getting passion fills a need and then they can enjoy everything else they get at home that much more.
None of this is to excuse the sin nor make it ok. But I have learned a lot about adultery. Religiously and legally it may be black and white, but emotionally it is not. I don't condone it, but I understand it, and, yes, I have been part of it. I have also told women to go home and make it work at home, even teaching them how to teach their husbands to give them what they need.
It is still wrong. But, alas, part of life.
Not YOUR sin?
Am I missing something here?
If you sleep with an eishes ish, be you married, single, black or white,
Are you implying that YOU get off scot free?
to Anon.
As you say, "To have never really kissed anyone but your husband, to realize that there was never any (other) passion, then to have the opportunity to see what it is like ..."
This is very true.....Take a girl from Williamsburg, or Boro Park, etc......she's attractive, curious about life, loves to read, thereby discovering all the passions and thrills that are available in the world (but not to her)
She, however, will go on one or two "shidduch dates" maybe even what is called a "bishow" where the guy comes to her house, sits in her living room talking to her for about an hour, and then she has to make up her mind. This will be the ONLY man that she will ever touch, that she will ever kiss, go to bed with, have any intimacy of any kind with. THIS IS IT!! Never, ever, to experience the thrill of flirtation, the conquest, and what comes after. So, I DO understand it - but still - it's a sin - it's a sin - it's a sin! (I think it was lost spirit who had that song on his blog?)
But, I don't think that this will fill the need and that she will go home and her marriage will be better. NOPE!! Just the opposite. When she is home with frum hubby, she will recoil from him....remembering the time she spent in her lover's bed, and the uninhibited display of lust, love, whatever it is, outside of the marriage. She will be less satisfied at home - not more! She will have PROOF that good sex, stolen kisses, no holds barred, is out there, but she isn't getting any at home. And I think that once she tastes it, the marriage might be halfway over.
That's how I see it......so it's really dangerous, and can destroy a family, not to mention that she is a "sotah" ......good thing they don't have that nowadays to prove a woman's guilt. Lots of women would have to be disposed of, in this community. Geez......what is going on in this world?
Chayala,
OK....I guess I should just forget about it?
They'll be punished in the great beyond, is that it?
So, then, we come back to the point of..........will there be a judgement day? How does the system work when you get up to the pearly gates?
What gets counted on the side of right?
a person who sticks to the "Din", to the letter of the law, but is stingy with his time, is not a generous and good person;
or a good, generous soul, who helped his neighbors, gave charity, gave of himself, but is human, and gave in to the need of pleasure - "Carpe Diem" - Seize the Day.
No easy answers.
Maybe the answer is not easy for you but for me it’s a no brainier. The latter will have an easier time if there is an upstairs…
to also a chussid
That's the way I HOPE it will be.
I hope that Hashem counts the good that we do more than He counts every little nit-picky rule, done with a miserable nature!
According to Jewish law, a divorced male cannot commit adultery. That does not make it right in other ways, but it is not his sin of adultery.
MG: "When she is home with frum hubby, she will recoil from him..." Only if she is having sex in her marriage. So many marriages are sexless, or the sex is "mechanical," always the same and with one goal (unfortunately, usually his goal). It is easy for a woman to get through these five minutes, if they exist, without recoiling. Note that this is true in an extra maritial affair that is mostly just passionate sex, not true love in a broader sense. That would be harder to hide.
These women want/need someone to hold them, to show they care, to treat them like a queen, even if only for an hour or two, only occassionally.
It is abhorrent that they do not get that from the same man who sings Aishet Chayil to her.
And whether or not it is my sin is my issue, don't get hung up on that if you want to learn about what is happening in society around you.
to Anon....
you write,
"These women want/need someone to hold them, to show they care, to treat them like a queen, even if only for an hour or two, only occassionally.
It is abhorrent that they do not get that from the same man who sings Aishet Chayil to her."
I agree absolutely!!
Of course, it's not so in all cases. Frum hubby sings Aishes Chayil to her, and in his limited way, he thinks he does love her enough. He doesn't understand that she needs more, he just can't understand it.
Nevertheless, even if I put religion to the side, it doesn't help the marriage - it makes it worse. She's infatuated, she keeps her cellphone close to her heart, waits for the phone call...whispers behind hubby's back, maybe starts ignoring some of the children's need for her time and attention, cause she is so wrapped up, in receiving that hour or 2 from lover....it doesn't work. on any level.
UNLESS - lover REALLY loves her and helps her through every area in her life to try and make it better, and let's face it, he won't stick around forever, so she's left with a worse situation than before.
MG: You're thinking too hollywood. Sometimes it is just the time together, just physical needs and there is no waiting for the calls, etc. Some people can separate sex and love. An hour or two with someone telling you you are beautiful, proving it, gives you the strength to make it through the week of kids, husband, and lack of intimacy. It may not work for you, but for many it does. Yes, there are other situations where it becomes all consuming and dangerous and destructive. All I am saying is that is not always the case.
It may happen once, it may continue for a year, it may just end. Any guilt is but aside by the easing of self-doubt and easing of insecurities. Some guy who you have respected tells you how great you are, honestly thinks it, shows you compassion and love, and you realise what you are worth. You may end it and then strive to get your marriage there, you may decide to end your marriage because you are not being treated as you should, or you may be a stronger person knowing you are attractive (in a greater sense).
Or yes, it can destroy your life if you can't handle it.
I am leaving sin and religion out of this discussion because it doesn't matter in the sense that these women are from all backgrounds. Frum women, as I stated before, bring somewhat different reasons to the table, but it happens across the board.
Anonymous said...
"According to Jewish law, a divorced male cannot commit adultery. That does not make it right in other ways, but it is not his sin of adultery."
And where do you get this idea from?
"Some people can separate sex and love. "
And you claim to know many frum women.
"Some guy who you have respected tells you how great you are, honestly thinks it, shows you compassion and love, and you realise what you are worth. "
How and why should they be able to differentiate, if you can't?
You're in denial.
Big Time
Question to MGirl
Are you yourself, married, divorced, or a single girl?
Anon:
u write very eloquently and u have a lot of good points.
but u either r totally ignorant and/or conniving and/or self-serving. If anything being with a married women is 1 of the 3 cardinal sins.
religion aside, using your language, taking advantage of inexperience and hurting women stuck in not good marriages is the lowest of the low.
u remind me of this fellow who was a truly ignorant Jew, who used to explain to me, that he has the biggest mitzvah of gemilaas chasodim because he has sex with the widows and comforts them.
now although that is a questionable issue, an eishis ish- a married woman, in many instances the sin is bigger on the man than the woman.
where u r going is pretty obvious, but where r u coming from?
First, a member of the area Bet Din told me about the laws. I think they are crazy, and I think it is wrong, but it is the law. Second, many people can separate sex and love. Just because maybe you can't doesn't mean others can't. Sometimes you eat out of hunger, sometimes out of loneliness, sometimes for sport. Same thing. Human sexuality is very complex. Third, about this subject, I am not in denial. I have put a lot of thought and research into it. I won't elaborate, but feel free to think whatever you like. Just be willing to learn if the world is not exactly as you perceive or were taught. I have said 'no' a lot more than I have said 'yes' and I do not go fishing in the wrong streams.
MG:
for the moment, let's just clear the facts a little.
u make it sound as though 1 out of 2 frum women r into this.
well, most frum women r not that needy, gutsy, and edumacated, to do what u r talking about.
most of those few that do r usually introduced, seduced and used by selfish men like Anon.
your point of men not giving enough love to their lady is a universal and age old problem. just look at all the media which the headlines usually reflect this.
it doesn't give the excuse for anyone to commit sins and become religiously suicidal or to deny the existence of G-D due to that.
"Some people can separate sex and love. "
"Some guy who you have respected tells you how great you are, honestly thinks it, shows you compassion and love, and you realise what you are worth. "
Yes Anon, the people who can't separate sex and love, THEY might think and feel the above.
But for those experienced and smart enough to differentiate, this is more like it.
Some sex-pot who you have naively respected tells you how ignorant and trusting you are, honestly thinks so, shows you the ropes and the moves, and you realize that your vagina was worth his dick.
Wow.
That would do wonders to my self-esteem
I will stop posting, I don't want to upset you any more. I never said what I have done (yes, past tense) was right nor moral nor ethical, nor have I said that the women were right. I merely laid out some facts and information in response to MG's post.
Adultery is wrong. When I was married, and when I will be again, I will have one lover, my wife. Period. BUT, I understand why others do it, why I was a participant in it in the past, and you should be aware that such behavior is not as infrequent nor foreign as you would like to believe.
Keep up the good blog, MG, sorry to have become such a presence.
Anon,
The point is not about what you or others have done.
I am not God's secretary, and people do make mistakes.
What got to me was how sanctimonious and self-righteous you were about it.
How many ways can I say it was/is wrong? I am not proud of it, I just state it as it is. I have done tchuva and will continue to. Just because I can talk straight forwardly about it does not make me sanctimonious nor self-righteous. I am one-half the problem, remember, in all cases, I was approached. In some cases, I acquiesced. Now let me go away!
to hoesantragerin
you ask
Hoezentragerin said...
Question to MGirl
Are you yourself, married, divorced, or a single girl?
as for me, since you ask....I've been all of the above, I had my yetzer hora when I was single, then I married a chasidishe man, that my parents picked out for me (AGAINST MY THREATS TO END IT ALL) and then I got divorced, and remarried..........so my experience is from all points of view.. Ah knows it all!!
Hey, Anon
you say
"Keep up the good blog, MG, sorry to have become such a presence"
Don't go!
All views are welcome here. That's the point of it - to get the feedbck of all. Nobody is condemming you.......
to Ke'evei Beten
Where are you moving from, and why do you think that you'll feel like a fish out of water?
I wasn't weird for me........human nature is the same all over, chasidish, litvish, yesivish, conservative, and even non jewish -we are all human beings.....and sometimes
"the will is strong but the flesh is weak"
Don't worry about it.
9:22 AM
MG: Thanks for the nice words, but the "nobody is condemming you" really made me laugh! I'll keep reading and maybe the next comments will reflect some of the good I've brought to the world (and yes, some say there is some ...)
to Anon.
Ok....I'll revise my statement.....
I'M NOT CONDEMNING YOU.
I'm not an expert in human affairs. Leaving the religious aspect out of it, which got me so infuriated in the first place, (the original blog that I posted on this subject) I'm listening to you.......
Hey Anon,
You're a guy who claims that myriads of married women have fallen to your feet, so why all of a sudden do you feel so insecure?
Again, I am not judging you.
I was just pissed of by your attitude.
By the fact that you felt that YOU were doing THEM a service.
I'm sure you've done way more good in your life than bad.
I'm sure you are a very decent person.
Please forgive me, but I expected you to take it as a man.
I too would love to hear your input and opinions in the future.
Not myriads, seven. I don't understand it, never happened in college! Not insecure, just did not intend to be so prominent on someone else's blog. My attitude was either misinterpreted or misrepresented. I can talk openly and plainly about many parts of my life, good and bad.
Was I "doing them a service?" In part, I guess so but that is not my take on it. Ultimately, two women that I was with went on to counseling (which I always encouraged) and are happier now. Was any of that due to me? Maybe, maybe not. We are still friends. The other one, also still a friend, continues to be in a loveless marriage, and still not happy.
Not sure I get the "take it as a man" comment. I don't mind the comments, again, I just did not want to take away from MG's blog. But she appears to not mind.
Those women are good women. Good mothers (ok, maybe not great wives). They have issues to work out, who doesn't? We make choices in life and just try to do the best we can.
If all this is foreign or abhorrent to you, all the more power to you. It should be. Just understand that it happens. Some guys look for it and make it happen, other times it is the woman. I never seduced anyone, I never encouraged anyone. I did take part on some occassions, willingly and knowingly. AND IT WAS WRONG. I'm not stupid.
I do the best I can with what I've been given. I have given life, I have taken life (on the side of good), I have won awards from my peers and proteges, I have raised kids that others would not, I give tzedakah that people don't know, and yes, I have committed sins. We all have. I am not proud of them, but alas, I deal with them. And I have shared on a topic that MG brought up that I know all too much about, first hand.
Anon.
You sound like an intersting guy with a lot of life experience.
Wondering - how old you are - you've raised kids that others would not......wonder what that means? Children with special needs? another woman's children (as in a second marriage?)
naturally you don't have to divulge anything that you'd rather keep "anonymous"
just wondering...........
Late 40's, kids with severe disabilities and one "typical" that was not mine nor did the mother live with me. Married once, 8 years, never even looked at another woman! It ended when she could not deal with the plate God gave us. If you post an email I'll write to you off-line. For now, good night ...
Just asking, is kissing and hugging as bad as actual sex? that's one line i never crossed and decided i never will, but truly i never felt guilty while i was only kissing etc.
oops
Just asking, is kissing and hugging as bad as actual sex? that's one line i never crossed and decided i never will, but truly i never felt guilty while i was only kissing etc.
to Ke'evei Beten
You can be an individual almost everywhere and anywhere, if you go about it in a mature way. Don't have to flaunt any differences in public, and when making new friends here, there are many people around in this community that will share your opinions and values, just gotta be on the lookout.
When are you moving?
Your wife wants to become more frun........is that going to cause tension between the two of you? You might have to change alot of things - in your personal life and otherwise.....Are you up for it? I guess if you love your wife, you'll certainly give it your best shot. TRY!! It IS worth it.
to Anon...
My e-mail address is kaballahgrrl69@aol.com - write anytime - I'll try to respond promptly..
To clear it up, as far as "sinning" goes; the facts that I have gotten from a very reliable source, today, is this;
If a man is married and has sex with a single girl, this is not "Aishes Ish" and not considered adultery. (because originally men were allowed to have more than one wife)
If a single man has sex with a married woman, they are BOTH guily. It IS "Aishes Ish". - adultery.
If a married man has sex with a married woman, it is also "Aishes Ish" - adultery.
That's what I was told today as an absolute definite!
Any questions??
I just stumbled upon your blog great work!!
Your last post is killing me I am just as disturbed as you are, I am shocked, saddened and upset that this is possible
This guy bedded 5 married frum women from BP?, is he himself a frum married person?
did you ask him questions, like why he does it ? or
why they do it ?
and you say that you know one of these women?
can they ALL be sex deprived? and even if they are .. why risk your marriage for a little sex.. I have so many question,
tell me your made it up
shlomy
Shloimy, you're jelious and it shows.
Shlomy asks,
can they ALL be sex deprived? and even if they are .. why risk your marriage for a little sex.. I have so many question.
Shlomy, there is something inherently wrong with your comment, and therein lies the answer to your question.
You are so distraught because you find it hard to believe that these women are risking their marriage.
What you are not shocked about is the graveness of the sin involved.
If the cardinal factor keeping these women back is fear for their marriage, then they will find a way to go about it and have their marriages too.
Like with many other situations in life, God is the strongest deterrent.
I wrote the comment with great disgust not even being able to think properly
just the MRG wrote, they she heard about cheating here and there, but in MASSES? one guy alone bedded 4 frum married women with children, how many other guys are luring our women? is it all because they are sex deprived ? is my wife safe :) because I Deliver ?
What I meant was.. ok don't worry about the sin itself but aren't they afraid to be caught and wreck their marriage and be ousted forever?
here is an e-mail exchange I had with Shlomy.
In a message dated 5/17/2005 6:07:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, chossid@yahoo.com writes:
just stumbled upon your blog great work your last post is killing me I am just as disturbed as you are, I am shocked, saddened and upset that this is possible this guy bedded 5 married frum heimihsa women from BP?,is he himself a frum married person?
MY ANSWER:
He's not frum at all, barely jewish and never a practicing jew....happens to be born jewish, that's about it. He's a single guy, a leftover flower child of the 60's. smokes pot every day, watches sports on TV, and tries to get laid as often as he can. LOL
SHLOMY says...........
did you ask him questions, like why he does it ?
MY RESPONSE
I DID ask him. His answer, of course, is that the women are very available, very needy, so why not?? questions of halacha are not part of his landscape.
SHLOMY asks...
and you say that you know one of these women?
AND THEN I SAID....
I do. And she happens to be a nice person, very attractive, and she's in a bad marriage, so she was prime easy pickings for his sweet talk.
SHLOMY again....
can they ALL be sex deprived?
MY RESPONSE...
not all, but enough of them, which is pretty sad.
SHL.
why risk your marriage for a little sex..
MG ANSWWERS....
true - logically, we know that, but you can't imagine how many DO risk it, they think they're never ever going to get caught. I heard of one case, a VERY chasidishe family, the husband didn't want to divorce her even after there was proof! His family had her watched, where she went, and they saw enough. He said "I don't want to know anything" because if he knows , he has to divorce her, by jewish law. and he didn't want to. They are still married. This is FACT!!
SHLOM (yet again)
tell me your made it up......
MY ANSWER:
I wish! That's why I was so blown away when he told it to me in such a matter of fact way.
C'est La Vie"
Let me get this straight. This fellow happens to have 4-5 affairs, all with married women from Boro Park. Sure. I believe his every word.
It sounds like all the BP ladies who want an affair mysteriously find their way to him. Wow! Fantastic! What a stroke of luck.
And before you all jump on me and tell me not to be naïve, yeah, maybe it does happen, but only rarely, and certainly not 4-5 times with the same man!
Stop with the "our" women, etc. People are people, frum or not. And a guy that will have an affair is likely to have more than one. Why is that surprising? Frummies, good Catholic women, politicans, and just plain old folk, it is all too pervasive. "Not in our neighborhood" is a dangerous mind set.
Shlomy: If you have great communication with each other, if you make love (not just "Deliver" as you say) then the odds are overwhelming she won't go elsewhere.
Frummer,
BP is not SH. Out of the hundreds if not thousands of available woman out there he found five. Big deal.
Just saw the comments from way up there. Better late then never, I guess.
AAC,
That was exactly my point. When the Shkootzim will feel secure enough to take the things they like from Chassidus without feeling shunned by the community, like eating Cholent on Thursday night without an Hechsher, only then would people realize that what kept us so many years in the ghetto was just a farce.
MG,
Of course it makes me happy. Nothing to do with my parents though. When the wall will fall, I’ll be able to cross the line back and forth as I wish without risking anything. Can you imagine that?
frummer , I agree with you, at least I want to agree with you in this point,
and Anonymous perhaps you didn't read my blog, by delivering I meant all the above , good sex as well as love, and help around the house,
but I am still running scared after reading this post! MRG I wish I never read it
I would suggest to you that you take your colleagues claims with a pinch/bucket of sault.
This is not to say these things dont happen, everyone has desires and our goual on this world is to overcome them, but these problems should be dealt with in the seriousness that they deserve.
to "A Monsey Yid"
Actually, she did tell me that at first, she was giddy with excitement. A guy, other than her husband - found her sexy!
Wow.
A short while later, being more rational, she ended the "fling"
The thrill is not worth losing your marriage over, and provoking G-D's anger.........so she stopped it.
sound like Melrose platz and Desperate Vibbelach to me. I always wanted to know if your going cheat why would you do it with someone in the same community. go get a goy and really enjoy. or how about " a shaigetz is a chaya but a shiktzah is a mechayah."
Monsey, you may be right about the circumcision. most Jewish women want the 20% off the top. and another note, 13th avenue sometimes is better than SCORES.
to A Monsey Yid.
Certainly, she knew that on 13th avenue, as you say, men found her attractive.
But maybe, the fact that he was from the OUTSIDE, where he could have his choice of so many, and he chose her......
I don't know, it's just a thought. I haven't spoken to her in quite awhile.
hey MARGI, was that the guy in the picture i sent you?
to kvetch.
you talkin' to me? What guy? what picture?
i sent a picture to kaballahgrrl69 @aol is that you?
to kvetch.
Oh.....in an e-mail, right?
I'm going to check it out now.
Have a great Shabbos :0)
Some of these men are so interested in the intricacies of the Talmud, that they forget the BIG TEN!
This type of hypocracy does not suprise me at all, but makes me wonder about the true meaning of being frum.
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